Time For New Wheels (Some Clarification)

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 09/05/2019 at 07:37 • Filed to: Bicycle

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We’ve been doing a lot of biking lately as a family, we all enjoy it, it’s great time together, and we all get some exercise.

At this point my oldest daughter is the only one with a bike. My middle daughter has my old Mongoose ( which is still in amazing shape ), which is a perfect match for her. My wife is currently riding an old Cruiser bike, which is in great shape as well. I am currently riding my old Royce Union mountain bike, carrying our youngest daughter behind in one of these:

Now my old mountain bike has been beat to hell and back, it currently needs a new rear rim, along with the rear mechanisms fixed.

Soooooo, the wife and I are looking for new bikes, and want a decent tow-behind for the youngest. Given she’s wanting it more for a workout and I more just want to enjoy riding, I’m thinking we will get her a better bike and a nice tow behind for taking the little one.

This leaves me to get something I actually want to ride. I love older “stunt” bikes, like the Mongoose my middle daughter has. I also love the old “lowrider” bikes that were big years ago. This got me searching to see if one can still get the lowrider parts, low and behold not only can you still get parts, you can buy a complete bike for about the cost of the parts to build one years ago!

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I’ve ridden this style of bike in the past and found them to be comfortable cruisers, easy to run long distance on. They’re not high speed bikes, but given the rest of the riding group, it should have plenty.

What’s Oppo think?

Other suggestions?

Am I just losing it completely?

Some added info to clarify some confusion:

1. My middle daughter is riding my old 1999 Mongoose single speed trick bike, so her max speed is about our max speed, I would guess 6-10mph on average. Mostly mild hills with no off road ( but I will keep the MT bike for offroad anyway ), riding around 8-10 miles a day.

2. I have a bad knee that gives me hell in “normal” riding positions.

3. We’re cheap, in case no one noticed, dropping anything over $2-400 on a bike isn’t in the cards.

Chariotoflove > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:17

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If you want something low, I find  all the kids in the park seem to think this is rad:

Sovande > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:18

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Comfort first, style second. I'd get something with some gears. I would think you'd be limited with one of those cruisers. 

vicali > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:27

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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:38

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https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-venge-sagan-collection/p/157778

MSRP $ 13,25 0

smobgirl > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:40

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I think the rule in Colorado is that the bike must be worth more than the car...

OPPOsaurus WRX > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 18:40

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are you losing it? based on what you do with these old Ch rys ler prod u cts you lost it a long time ago. (if you have lost it you have done a pretty good job with out it)

As far as the bike goes, I would definitely go for ease of ride over style. You aren’ t going to look stylish when you are sweating your ass off trying to keep up, especially if you wife is on something new, light weight, efficient .....maybe if you want to fix the mountain bike so you can have it for a ride then go for whatever you want after that.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 09/04/2019 at 18:42

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There are a couple of folks up here that have been rid ing trails, actual trails on their trikes. The Resort has done additional brushing and trail work to make it a bit more trike friendly. Th ose guys have to work so hard to go up hill with arm strength. 

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/04/2019 at 19:07

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Adaptive mountain biking is one of the coolest and most inspiring things to watch. Really cool to see trails be more inclusive of these guys.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/04/2019 at 19:12

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It helps to have outrageous granny gears. ;)

One of the problems with biking around North Texas is not having many challenging hills near me. I never need to  use my inner chainring.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 09/04/2019 at 19:21

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Same is true over most of Texas. When I was preparing to ride the Houston to Austin MS-150, we actively sought out feeder roads with overpasses so we could be ready for the rolling hills in Austin.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 19:23

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If you’re going to ride at 6 mph, then sure, that will work. If you want to go faster and farther, you need something that is set up for distance riding. You don’t need to go whole hog and pay for a fitting, but you would do well to read a few articles on how bikes are supposed to fit. Pay particular attention to the seat/pedal relationship. If you’re riding long distances and this is wrong, you’re begging for knee and hip problems.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/04/2019 at 19:33

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The only way to train without hills is by doing intervals, but that’s a very poor substitute. 

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/04/2019 at 21:45

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I have no experience with lowriders and personally they are something I’d stay away from.

In you case I would look at something more like a Transition Klunker (if you can find a 2nd hand one) or similar... actually the Surly Bridge Club or Troll are nice geared options but then there's the single speed Lowside as well. All depends on your budget really...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 09/05/2019 at 07:07

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We don’t really ride off road ( other than some mild trails, which I’ll keep my MB for ), so I don’t see how that would be any better suited than a lowrider?

2ndly, those are way outside what I’d ever spend on a bike, I can buy cars for that money!

I’m leaning more towards $400 or less for a new bike.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Sovande 09/05/2019 at 07:15

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Cruising is pretty much all we do. We cover 8-10 miles a night, but we’re just out to enjoy the ride really.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/05/2019 at 07:17

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Did you forget I’m cheap?

That thing almost costs as much as our new van did, something’s just not right about that.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > smobgirl 09/05/2019 at 07:18

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So over $100?

I can handle over $100, so long as it stays under $500.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/05/2019 at 07:21

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I guess I’m looking at it this way:

1. I find the position on the lowriders to be extremely comfortable, my bad knee gives me fits if I’m not comfortable.

2. We’re only riding as fast as our slowest member, which is my middle daughter on her single speed Mongoose:

Maybe it helps, maybe not?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/05/2019 at 07:26

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6 mph is probably about our average speed actually. Remember, I’m riding with a 10 and 12 yo, one of which is on a single speed 1999 Mongoose trick bike.

I already have knee problems, I find the more leaned back/cruiser position to be more comfortable/less painful.

Price is also another issue, realistically, I don’t want to spend more than a few hundred on a new bike. My old RU mountain bike cost me around $150.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 07:44

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I understand about the price. Back in the day, there was a guy who participated in a cycling newsgroup who bought Wal-Mart bikes and rode them until they fell apart (he did basic maintenance to keep them going). His position was that he could buy several bikes and ride for years for less money than most of us spent on a nicer bike.

The counter-argument was about quality and comfort. There’s a lot to be said for a bike that fits properly, weighs less, and doesn’t have rusty hardware (it’s nearly impossible to keep the cheap parts from rusting once they are exposed to the weather).

If you have knee problems, fit is super-important even if you’re going slow. Try this: squat down mid-way between standing and a full squat; then walk slowly around the room. Feel the burning in your thighs and the creaking in your knees? That’s what happens when you’re riding a bike that doesn’t fit properly and puts you in a position that puts unnecessary stress on your thighs and knees. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 08:56

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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 08:58

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A used 26” name brand mountain bike made before say 2005. I found a 2000 year model specialized for a friend for $100. I put about $50 into it and she has a great bike.

Chuckles > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 09:13

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Start hitting up yard sales on the weekends and you'll probably find lots of bikes in your price range.

SiennaMan > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 09:13

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There is also a more conventional trike..

https://www.amazon.com/Mobo-Recumbent-Cruiser-Tricycle-3-Wheel/dp/B002LOT6SK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=recumbent+trike&qid=1567688908&s=gateway&sr=8-3

Admittedly, I consider over $300 expensive for a bike for pleasant evening rides (I’m apparently even cheaper than you are.. ;-) ), but this style would probably be more comfortable than what you were looking at and as an added bonus you could ride up next to your youngest and say hi..

(plus, I bet you could perhaps find a good used one cheaper with a little looking..)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > SiennaMan 09/05/2019 at 10:01

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How are the recumbent bikes?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/05/2019 at 10:11

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Realistically, how much better are the pricier bikes than say a $200 Walmart bike?

I mean my $150 Royce Union DH has lasted me almost 20 years, and it took all the abuse of jumping, offroad riding, etc that teenage me put it through . Comfort wise the only issue I really have is the seat, but I could change that if it really bothered . Otherwise it’s pretty light, aluminum frame and wheels, and has held up very well.

Serious question, are these $1200 bikes really that much better? And how so?

I’ve never really looked at anything more expensive, so some real experience and insight would be greatly appreciated.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/05/2019 at 10:13

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I’ll ask you the same question I posed to TheRealBicycleBuick:

Serious question, are these $1200 bikes really that much better? And how so?

I’ve never really looked at anything more expensive, so some real experience and insight would be greatly appreciated.

I’ve always had very good experiences with “cheap” bikes, like my Royce Union DH.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/05/2019 at 10:20

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Curious to know this as well, outside of weight are they REALLY that much better. 

SiennaMan > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 10:36

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In stationary form, I found them slightly ackward , but easier to dial in a comfortable leg distance without causing discomfort in the neighborhood of one’s backside..

 Effectively,  they'd take so.e getting used to, but might be worth a look if you already have a bad knee..

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 10:38

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So I ride lets say on average four times a week. I have been riding bikes since I was 18 years old on a regular basis and I would say it is my #1 past time/hobby . For me I buy the nicest bike I can afford. That is not what most recreational riders need or want. My dad has a 30 year old Specialized Hard Rock bought for about $300 and it is still serviceable and perfectly suited for riding around town and on smooth dirt trails. If he had bought a “cheap” bike back in 1990 he would probably be on his 4th or 5th “cheap” bike by now.

A “$ 1,200" bike is about where we start to find good quality hard tails that are suitable for regular abuse off road, or road bikes that are high enough quality to provide a good ride and excellent durability for regular use, lets say 2-3 rides per week, and the bike will not hold you back due to shitty parts or poor design. You could train for and complete a century ride on a $1200 bike and be perfectly fine. In fact that is what I would recommend to most people getting into the sport. If you don’t like it, you can turn around and sell the bike a year later for say $800 and not totally loose your shorts.

I recommended the older 26" mountain bike because they are numerous , inex pensive, and very good to ride for what you are describing. Since garage bikes are very common I have found several great older bikes that were in the $1,500 range when new selling for less than $200. These bikes are still serviceable and have high quality parts that will work well for years to come.

Here are some examples of bikes that will be much better than a walmart bike. I pick minneapolis because it is a large metr o area with lots of inventory.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bik/d/minneapolis-1990s-rocky-mountain-hammer/6966331841.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/bik/d/lakeville-gary-fisher-hoo-koo-koo/6956683634.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bik/d/minneapolis-specialized-rock-hopper/6971637189.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/bik/d/saint-paul-vintage-gt-karakoram/6964093535.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/bik/d/minneapolis-mens-giant-upland-21-speed/6971700613.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/bik/d/minneapolis-mens-specialized-hard-rock/6971686398.html

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/bik/d/colwell-trek-mountain-bike/6971677527.html

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/05/2019 at 10:43

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Reliability , ride quality, and performance are all worlds better with a more expensive bike . Weight is just one factor in the equation. Example: A low quality aluminum rim can weigh twice as much as a mid range quality rim and still be half as strong and not reparable if you case a rock and dent it.

A “ $1200" bike will not fold underneath you the first time you jump off a curb and will be able to keep up as your fitness improves . A “$ 1200" bike is not needed for 90% of cyclists tho. I usually try to get newer riders on quality older bikes from the mid 90's or newer, then I service the bikes to make sure everything is working well. A year latter if they are still rid ing and enjoying the bike then they can upgrade to a “modern” bike without having spent all that money on an expensive bike right off the bat and then realize their passion is swimming not riding bikes .

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 11:11

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This is refereed to as a “dentist” bike.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > vicali 09/05/2019 at 11:12

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Best b ike riding movie ever.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 11:12

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They are a lot better, especially if the intended use is fast, over long distances, over rough terrain, in inclement weather, in competition, or if it’s stored outside.

Lightness - just like a car performs better if it is lighter, a bicycle does too. Especially considering that the power to weight ratios are so much better in a car. A Wal-Mart mountain bike usually weighs in over 50 lbs. A performance mountain bike can be half that. Weight affects acceleration, maneuverability, braking, and lifting/jumping the bike. While jumps may not be in the cards, a heavy bike can be hard to hop over a pothole or a curb. Forget about carrying one for any distance or up a few flights of stairs.

Materials - cheap metals rust. Fasteners and moving parts are the most affected. Leave a cheap chain outside or don’t clean it after it gets wet and it will start rusting both outside and inside the joints where it really counts. Other adjustable parts can rust and get frozen in place. Seatposts and the fork are the most critical parts prone to this.

Imprecision - ever had a chain skip because a derailleur doesn’t properly place the chain on the chain ring or cog? Cheap parts are imprecise and are prone to falling out of adjustment. Part of the problem is the derailleur, part of the problem is the shifter, and part of it is the cable in between. Imprecise moving parts can be dangerous if they don’t work as expected at a critical moment, like when you’re trying to accelerate across an intersection after a light changes.

Longevity - cheap parts wear out faster.

Comfort - Your weight is supported by your hands, feet, and if the bike is fitted properly, on your ischial tuberosities (aka sit-bones). Cheap parts, especially cheap saddles, make the bike uncomfortable and often the rider just stops riding instead of fixing the problem with better parts which are made for the rider’s specific shape (different size butts require different sized saddles).

Upgrades/Maintenance/Repair - Good luck finding parts for a Wal-Mart bike. They just aren’t available. If nothing ever breaks, you’ll be fine, but every bike I’ve ever owned needed something and some point. Basic maintenance can be done, but you’ll need some specialty tools (available at a bike shop).

Suspension - please don’t buy anything from Wal-Mart with a suspension. Higher-end mountain bikes have shocks which rival the best equipment you can buy for your car. Air/oil suspension, adjustable ride heights, and adjustable damping are just a few of the things available. A low-end bike will have a simple spring or elastomer suspension with no damping. They don’t work well, are prone to “stiction,” and parts cannot be found when they wear out.

Braking - As you are aware, different brake materials and brake designs drastically change braking performance. Since the advent of v-brakes and the widespread use of aluminum rims, rim brakes on low-end bikes have seen a huge improvement in performance. Even so, they are still prone to mechanical slop and poor performance due to cheap materials. The slop can cause parts to rub the rim (slow) or the tire (dangerous).

Wheels - cheap bikes have machine-built wheels which are usually not tensioned properly. This leads to broken spokes and warped wheels.

Assembly - I’ve seen bikes built with parts installed backwards and upside down. Forget about proper adjustment! B ike assemblers at Wal-Mart are paid minimum wage and historically did not get any training on how to properly assemble t he product they are building.

Wal-Mart bikes are the Yugos of the cycling world. A low-end bike purchased from a bike shop is like a Civics or Camry . A h igh-end bike is like a Corvette or Raptor . Really high-end bikes are like a Porsche.

vicali > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/05/2019 at 11:16

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ummm, close but;

benjrblant > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 11:19

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Serious question, are these $1200 bikes really that much better? And how so?

Yes, much in the same way that a Snap-On ratchet is better than one from Harbor Freight. Do you need a Snap-On? Will you notice the difference? Does it matter to you? Some will say yes, some no. If you use it once a month for a short period of time, a $1200 bike will be of little benefit to you. If you use it daily for several hours you’ll definitely notice the difference.

Having said this, the difference between a $500 bike from a shop and a $200 bike from a department store or amazon is MASSIVE. Components will be actually worth repairing or replacing and you’ll move up from a disposable/ consumable to something you can keep for a long time. What’s the difference? Less weight, better frames with an actual warranty, more efficient bearings and moving parts, better shift cables and housings, better quality metals and machined parts, and standards that are from the 21st century.

Again: does any of this matter to you? will you notice the difference? I can’t answer that for you. It might not, and that’s fine. 

Bikes also depreciate rapidly and I’d agree with others in suggesting a used good bike over a new decent or affordable bike. I’d also consider talking to a professional (either a shop or a PT) about fitting it to you if you’ve got knee pain - bikes have lots of adjustments and small tweaks make significant differences.

Schaef_Camaero Z/28 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 11:23

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I would look for used hybrid bikes from major manufacturers like Trek, Giant, Specialized & Cannondale. These generally will have an aluminum frame, a 7, 8 or 9 x 3 gear set depending on age , a front suspension fork, 700c wheels and allow for a more upright riding position. 

I have a 2005'ish Giant Cypress DX, which is the bike that got me into cycling a few years ago. The quality of the components on a ‘bike store brand’ bike is a big step up from Walmart bikes (feel, durability & weight). These bikes should fall in the $ 100-$ 250 price range. I paid $100 for mine, and replaced tubes/tires, shifters and cables (and eventually handlebars, pedals, added a rack, etc.) It’s a very comfortable bike, just as easy to ride on light off-road trails as it is to ride 25 miles on pavement. My dad has had both knees replaced, and has a Trek 7300 that he likes to ride around campgrounds and a little bit on the local rails-to-trails bike paths.

No matter what you get, fit is BY FAR the most important thing to consider. As another person said, you don’t have to spend a bunch of money getting fitted at a bike shop, just do a little research and you can get it close enough. This will also help you determine frame size so you know what to look for. For reference, I’m 6'3 with a ~36" inseam and my Giant is a 23" frame.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 09/05/2019 at 11:40

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That is a very Oppo approach to bikes, and a good explanation. Probably good advice for any hobby: before you buy the expensive stuff new, buy something nice but older and see if you even like it. Could apply to everything from skiing to shooting to motorcycles  

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/05/2019 at 12:00

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Thank you for this. Well put and very in depth, this is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for!

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/05/2019 at 18:34

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Ha! It’s more of a reflection of my personal preferences than advice you should actually follow. In the end, the bike you should ride is the bike that you want to ride...and that’s about it.

I've never yet found a new sub $400 bike that I'd want to ride around my place!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 09/06/2019 at 06:51

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It’s a very hard thought for me to spend more on a bike than I have on most of my vehicles....